Leica M10 – September Photokina Announcement – March 2013 Available from Dealers…

229 Comments

1. Haha, I just bought the M9P and am thinking this will be my camera for life. I love it’s simplicity and instinctive nature. Love it and don’t want to change:)
   Thanks, BTW, for your help in my choice as your blog is excellent:)

   • The M9P is gorgeous. Enjoy it.

2. Has anyone mentioned what Sony is doing? FF on that small RX1 body for 1/4 the price of the Leica. If you look at the Rx1 its starting to look more retro almost Leica like. I can see a year from now Sony having interchangeable lens using the RX1 body adding a built in EVF and adding more Zeiss glass.

   • Exactly which is why I said the Sony RX1 is the most exciting release at Photokina. No one else pushed it like Sony did this year.

3. M10 come, best time to get M9,
   but should i get M8.2 first while waiting… not cheap for all of them

4. I forgot to mention, they should also machine a solid brass casing to house a newly designed flash with an adjustable head but fits in your pocket similar in size to the contax G flashes but with the quality of light of the nikon sb900 just without the temperature problem. just saying.

5. Anyone want a Canon M10? (yes Canon): A modified Canon 5dmk2 that takes the leica M lenses. Better specs than the M10, live view, high iso capabilities, etc. Contact me, I have them….

6. I love photography. But what is it about. It is not about digital anything. It is about images and images made with the finest lenses one can afford, or most artistic lens rendering glass one chooses to posses. I have an M9 and M7 and a 1932 IID.
   I love the immediate response of the M9 but I love the uncertainty of the IID. It is my favorite camera, small camera. I do like large format though, especially 5×7 film, but that is another story. I have also had every Nikon pro digital body since the D1X. I use them to this day to survive, but I do not like them. They are beasts and designed for the lowest common mental denominator, quick turn around result oriented crowd, which unfortunately is becoming everyone, even me to a degree.
   At least Leica has until now stayed true to its roots. Nikon and Canon have not. Sure Leica needs to make money, and perhaps the M10 will generate lots of it, I hope so, but nothing comes even close to Leica glass. The lenses keep improving and improving and still work on Leica film cameras and show greater on film results.
   But to the original point. Photography is about image making and not about digital anything. It has become that, will undoubtedly remain that, and in doing so change the world as we perceive it to the point that one day someone will say ‘Is that real or is it digital?’ This is why ULF is alive and well as an art form. It is not about politics. Sometimes I think Leica is about politics. What do you think?

   • I can’t imagine Leica would even consider putting the letter M anywhere near a frankenstein monster like that. All we ever wanted from the M9 was higher ISO and I know its hard but longer battery life 400-500 shot count. I honestly dont see this as a good thing, CMOS? I bought into the Leica game cause it was a CCD sensor. The glass and the CCD is the perfect match. Video? I would own a canon 5d mkI or nikon d700 simply because it has no video. Im a photographer not a movie maker. and an EVF? what reason would you need an EVF? the standard classic viewfinder is why I switched back to leica after so many years. my perfect M10…

     Black body flat paint with no logos and the etching on the hot shoe. maybe a less glossy leather cover, view screen can be higher resolution. A film advance lever built in so we dont have to buy a 3rd party thumbs up that eliminates our hot shoe (I wouldnt mind if it also helpd to reset the shutter like the old film cameras) and ISO comparable to the M Monochrom. and a quality leather strap already included. boxed in a nice display case like the leica M6’s and M7’s and if they really want to get crazy, a switchable setting to get the styling of a monochrom switchable to a kodachrome styled color setting. thats all I ask of leica. I mean, i just want higher ISO cause I dont have a 0.95 or 1.4 so give me that many stops of light and call it day!

7. I’d spend the $10k to a company (or whoever) who is able to adapt the sensor of a Nikon D800e to a M9 (or any other mechanical Rangefinder camera). Both bodies supplied by me. Seriously!
   No Live View needed, no AF needed, no video needed and no rear display needed. Just the sensor adapted.

   I would be done for the next 25 years to come ….

   Due to the low ‘high ISO’ capabilities the recent M9 series is just a ‘sunny weather toy cam’.

8. Love Digital and the way it has put the control of image processing squarely back with every photographer and not just the few who could master and find space for the wet darkroom in their humble homes. But film did bring some kind of slow (even boring perhaps?) stability to a wonderful hobby. Now it has become a battle for the pixel and a way of squeezing the last penny out of followers of the art. 10k for a camera sounds sick to me when ordinary people are finding it very difficult to make ends meet at this time of austerity. Leica is a rich man’s tool mostly purchased as a badge, or for a hopeful profit on resale some twenty years down the line. Most M10s will end up in a bank vault somewhere, where hundreds of other models gather dust no doubt, waiting to be auctioned off at Sotherby’s. There was a time when Leica Ms were expensive but doable for most ordinary people. Perhaps it’s time to get back to basics and start making pictures with ordinary cameras instead of hankering after the latest everything just because it’s – well, the latest everything. HCB would turn in his grave at the way modern Leica is going. Will images from the M10 be any better than they are from the M9, or M8 – or any other mid to high range digital camera for that matter? I don’t think so! But then this isn’t about photography is it? It’s about ownership.

9. Hello Steve!

   Great blog and post! The price and wait time are pretty wild. Love your view on the sweet spot for megapixels. 🙂 I just wanted to leave a quick comment to let you know about our awesome gadget for photographers of every level and that we’re going to Photokina. For those going please come find our booth for free giveaways! The Hufa Holder lens cap clip was designed by photographers after they had, like many other photographers do, lost a TON of lens caps. The nifty little device just clips right on your strap and keeps your cap in place while you’re shooting! Turns out, we lose a whole lot less lens caps this way! 🙂 This also works no matter what camera you are using. Here is a video for you to check it out http://bit.ly/Nu7FPx. Thanks again for sharing the Leica information! Hope you’ll check out our gadget when you get a chance.

   Have a great day,
   Alix

   http://www.facebook.com/HufaHolder
   http://www.hufaholder.com

10. I wasn’t gonna chime in here but because I admire Steve’s site (and his work) here’s my two cents. My vote was NO. I think the bottom line is it’s simply personal preference. I have been shooting professionally for 30 years and handled just about all of the pro cameras. It’s a tool for the job, plain and simple, and what you create with it. I have some pro Nikon DSLRs that I occasionally use for action oriented jobs, but to be honest, I hate the damn things. And…I don’t think it would make a difference if it was a Canon, Pentax, Sony,or Fuji, or Blad or whatever. The ergonomics on these things are absurd and the myriad of buttons. dials and menus is ludicrous at best. (Notice the trend of manufacturers now to put shutter speed dials and the rest back where they were in the first place?!?) I STILL shoot with an M8 and regularly sell my fine art work in the several hundred to thousand dollars range for a large print. Which I have often done with the M8 up to 36″ wide. I primarily shoot B&W and regularly use older Leica lenses one of which is 58 years old. Sure I’d like to have an M9P or MM (I’d like to have an Aston Martin also) but I don’t see how it would make my images any better. Just like a great film negative, it’s what you do with the clean digital file afterwards IMHO. With an M10 I don’t want to hold some camera out in front of me and look at some monitor, I want a simple plain viewfinder. It’s always been more accurate to me and holding any camera out in front of you is just nuts to me. For stability at the least. I wear glasses and don’t really have a problem getting sharp images from a 2.8 135 even at the bottom. I like the M cameras because to me they are the most ergonomic and logically laid out cameras with reasonable weight that are capable of superb results. I want to make the decisions, not the camera, AND I don’t want or need my stills camera to shoot “video”. Finally, as the web well bloviates, this camera and that lens are better then the others, BUT I often will carry my M8 when using those Nikon DSLRs and when I compare the files afterwards their is none. The M files just look better to me. I had often heard through the years about how great Leica glass was but I stuck with Nikons, Blads, and Rolleis until I got my M8. Once I did and starting adding the Leica lenses, I GOT IT. As it’s been said above, Leica should do what they do best, stick to the basic rangefinder principles, improve sensors if you like, but keep the M? an M.

11. What makes a rangefinder a rangefinder? A camera without an actual rangefinder mechanism is not a rangefinder, I would think.

    I wish Leica would create a new non-rangefinder form factor M camera with a high-res EVF, Live View, HD video and all that while continuing incremental improvements to the traditional optical rangefinder like the M9. There is room for both and it seems people are split on what they want out of the M system.

12. a few rumors on Sony NEX FF

    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-sony-nex-goes-full-frame/
    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-there-will-be-not-a-new-native-e-mount-full-frame-lens-system-the-cameras-are-e-a-mount-hybrid-and-more/
    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/reminder-current-e-mount-nex-can-be-used-with-and-ff-sensor/

    if it is true it will change the game

    • IMHO, the game already started changing with the introduction of the mirrorless EVF cameras like the Sony NEX, Ricoh GXR, Olympus and other 4/3rds, etc. The concept of a UCAM (universal camera) has already taken hold, I think. The only thing these cameras are lacking today is a full frame sensor. The moment someone comes out with a FF sensor, I think the game is over for rangefinder cameras.

13. Well, I have owned my M4 for 40 years, and it is still working great, all my M glass have been purchased throughout this time, with my most recent M lens bought 2 years ago, the 75mm Summicron 2.0, whow, what a super lens. When you buy from a company that builds the best rangefinder camera in the world, you cannot go wrong.

    Currently, the M9, M9-P are the best rangefinder cameras you can buy, buy they are not mechancial instruments, they will not last 40 years, and neither will the M10.

    Looking back, I guess buying the M4 was a good decision, because I almost bought a Nikon F2 at the time.

14. With this Leica will move from anything resembling a photography company into solely a collector’s item for folks flush with cash in emerging markets. They were already close to this, but now they’ve sealed the deal.

    Jay

15. Steve, what would you do if Sony introduced an NEX-9, which was identical to the NEX-7 (or perhaps a wee bit bigger, but still much more compact than an M9), with a full-frame 36MP sensor (the same one used in the D800E), for $2,000?

    Would you pay even $5,000 for an M10 with the above specs, or get the NEX-9?

    • There will not be a FF NEX-9 or FF nex at all. If so it would require a whole new lens mount as the current NEX line is made for an APS-C sensor. Wouldn’t work for FF nor would the current FF DSLR lenses (without adapter) or else the camera would be super thick. I do not see a FF NEX system as Sony is having a hard time creating lenses for the current NEX system as it is.

      • A mirorless FF will come in any case , Sony or not nex or not

      • I don’t know about camera design, so I accept your judgment that there will be no NEX camera with a FF sensor. However, the E mount is actually a hair bigger in its inner diameter than the Leica M mount, so I would think it should be possible to build a camera using the E mount with a FF sensor.

        But regardless, as Erick pointed out above, whether it is Sony or Ricoh or Fuji (the most likely candidates), or someone else (Canon?), soon, we should be seeing a mirrorless EVF camera with a FF sensor for $2-2.5K. If that were to happen, and if it could work with Leica M (and R) lenses with adapters, why would anyone want to pay $9-10K for a Leica M10?

        The reason for my question is, we just witnessed prices of the S2 nosedive by 30-35% in the past three months, after Nikon announced the D800/D800E. Several pro photographers I know dumped their S systems on eBay at steep discounts and replaced their workflow with Nikon D800s for “almost the same image quality for a fraction of the cost”.

        That shows how overpriced the S2 was, and also how quickly, the balloon deflated in the face of head-on competition.

        While Leica undoubtedly makes fantastic lenses, and can charge a premium for its glass, I wonder if the days of the overpriced M bodies are numbered. An M9-P is already a $8700+ camera, by the time you add the essentials to make it usable – a grip for $250, a Thumbs Up for $125 and a viewfinder for $350.

        You can finance 60% of an NEX-7 with the money it costs to simply make an M camera usable!

        So the moment someone comes out with an EVF + FF body for $2-2.5K, why would anyone pay anything more than $4-5K for a Leica M10?

        And considering an EVF camera will have none of the shortcomings of an RF, like blockage of the viewfinder, misalignment between the RF and lens, inability to focus extremely closely, inability to use tele lenses, inability to use CPL or GND filters, etc., the bigger question is: does the advent of a FF EVF camera herald the end of the RF as a camera paradigm?

        • Good points, and I agree, Leica is in for a highly deserved comeuppance, IMHO. For years, both Leica and their retailers have been pompous and arrogant. But now, to borrow a term from Ken Rockwell, “digital rot” is catching up with Leica.
           
          A Leica digital camera is no different from a computer or smart phone, meaning yesterday’s digital camera is today’s garbage. A digital camera is merely an accessory to lenses, and a consumable commodity today.  Why would anyone in their right mind pay premium dollars for a hand-crafted notebook computer made out of high quality brass and other expensive materials?
           
          The Leica M9 and M10 are like silver and gold plated slide rules in a world that is being quickly taken over by digital calculators.  The rangerfinder is dead, and anyone who continues to support the rangefinder business is simply being naïve, and parting with their hard earned cash.  But as soon as people wise up, they’re gonna stop buying rangefinder cameras, and that will kill the M camera line.
           
          As soon as someone (Sony?) comes out with an EVIL camera with a FF sensor, the M line is finished, IMHO.  Sure, there will be a few Leica diehards who will pay $10,000 for an M10.  But that would be the eccentric minority, far away from the mainstream.

        • Roy, some interesting observations. And just think, if Leica had not dropped its slr range, and had not persevered with the flawed dslr back, but had instead stuck with the slr where would they be now?

          But, whoa! We are all expecting an M10. What if it turns out to be a dslr? 🙂

          No, I’ve just woken up. It was all a dream. LOL

      • Hi, Ken.

        Giving this a little more thought and if Sony does release a FF mirrorless along the lines of the Nex 7, but obviously larger, don’t you think that this would have great appeal to a wide range of photographers who have legacy Leitz, Zeiss, etc lenses, that initial sales of the camera would be more than likely be to these users, despite a lack of in-house lenses?

        Already, enthusiastic Nex users love their Leitz glass on the APS-C sensor via an adaptor, despite the cropped FoV. Don’t you feel that they would simply jump at the idea of a FF sensor camera with built in EVF?

        Admittedly this is from a somewhat blinkered perspective of a Nex user with Leica optics, and Sony’s vision could be different. But, you have to admit, what a thought!

      • You say there will never be a NEX FF. If I where you, i would not bet a cent on that. The new E-mount FF 24 mpix video camera is delivered with an LA-EA3 adapter to use A-mount lenses at the moment, …… until FF e-mount lenses are ready to come on market. THEN, the FF NEX will follow. It is a question of optics, not a question of Yes or no. So, as I said, don’t bet a cent on what you say about that there will never be a NEX FF. Believe it or not, the RX 1 is just the beginning of the development of the FF NEX.

        • Its also a question of body thickness..and a NEX FF camera would have to be thicker for it to work and they would no longer look like a NEX camera. Bigger body, larger lenses, larger adapters. May be a whole new line..”RX” perhaps? Hmmmmm.

16. What happened to minimalism? What happened to nothing should be there to distract us except the basic exposure settings? If this is true, I will purchase the M9P as my last Leica and shoot with my M3 for the rest of my life and pass it down to my daughter. I am not spending $10K for a corrupted Leica.

17. I need video in a Leica like a fish needs a bicycle!

18. I’ll buy it but if Sony does a Nex 9 FF for let’s say 2000€ I’ll take the sony

19. So Fuji can do a hybrid viewfinder but Leica can’t or doesn’t want to? Kinda sad.

20. The M is for “rangefinder” guys. No M no rangefinder. And 10 is a bad luck number for the Germans. A VX should make more sense (V for video not vengeance!).

    regards.

21. I also wish Leica success with the M10 by hoping another manufacturer produces a full frame body at a much reduced cost to compete with Leica. Why? Lets get real. The M10 at 10K is not realistic, even if it were at 8K. I have always felt when they crossed 5K with the M8.2 they were headed down the wrong track. By having competition, Leica will be a much better company and be forced into a new business model and have more competitive pricing.

22. My wishes

    FIrst and foremost – Faster image processing – So I can shoot properly at a professional rate and not have to wait………..If it has this alone I will buy.

    No EVF – if it really needs to be there, then make it a clip on because I don’t want it. But I’d prefer it wasn’t there at all.

    36MP – I can leave my Blad/Phase One woes behind, gladly.

    ISO – I rarely need higher than 400 but noiseless 800 would be great. Iwould actually like a 50 and a 25 ISO so I can use fast lenses without ND filters.

    That is all.

    • 36 MP with a rangefinder ? and never a single photo in focus with Summilux Noctilux and Summicron at full aperture !

23. M10 with 36MP please.

24. Interesting rumor.
    After the success with the M9 Leica is now stronger, so I hope the M10 will be even better.
    With LiveView the camera would be interesting for the users of manual SLR lenses like Canon FD, Minolta SR, Konica Hexanon because of the short register distance of the Leica M.

25. Leica are losing it in my opinion. My first Leica was a Digilux 2, which I still have along with an immaculate Digilux 1, an M9 and a M8, Summilux lenses. That’s it. The are awesome. I do NOT wish to shoot video on my still cameras, I have Pro cameras for that, SONY 🙂 I would loved them to have continued with the Digilux series as a fixed lens reportage camera. The M to me is a purist camera and I love it for it’s simplicity, but hey, that’s me and I could be wrong . . . I was once 🙂

    • ps, maybe it’s time to add a film Leica to my kit and explore that 🙂 I certainly don’t consider these base cameras as luxury items, maybe the Hermes stuff could be seen that way but a basic M9 is a work horse 🙂

26. 1. An M10 is needed to appeal to new users. By now, there will be no new buyers of an M9, only buyers of used M9s, so it’s time for an M10 to attract new users. Existing users of the M9? Enough will upgrade, some to have a second DRF camera, some to have the “latest”, some for higher ISO. Others will be able to patiently wait for the M11 which will be have all the stuff you all want in the M10, they will be able to skip a generation.

    I was amazed at how many bought the M9. So was Leica. I had a friend who traded from a DSLR to a RF without much experience other than trying my M8. She has loved the experience, and loves the results.

    2. Leica is a luxury good. It is an extravagance. When you get a questionnaire from Leica, they always ask, how this product compares to other luxury products!
    Can’t afford a new M10? Buy a used M9 or a used M8 or a used M6. They seem to hold their value a bit better than other cameras, and the lenses definitely hold their value.

    3. Leica has hit this level of success while the world went through an economic slow down. Amazing.

    4. What are they going to use to fill the capacity of that new Leica factory? Perhaps bring more glass work inside?

27. Just another idiot trying to give Leica some publicity.Why on earth would they put an DVD on a camera that allready has the best viewfinder ever made,just nonsense.Video?more nonsense.Leica are too smart to dig their own grave.

    • Auto corrected EVF to dvd.

28. So the M10, if I am understanding this all correctly. Has no Range finder. Uses a EVF, not a hybride ( Fuji X-Pro 1). My god it is not really an M, It is an X2 that is full frame and uses “M” mount lens. If true the M is dead, so now comes the new EVF camera. Leica forgot the most import thing , if so, this camera should have autofocusing lens. That would make the M10 a full frame X-Pro 1, not a bad Idea. But what is going to like focusing manual lens with and EVF? Look at the X-Pro 1. OOOH WWWEll. I just got a X-Pro 1 and will still shoot flim(M7). Leica, getting it right. Will you ever here these two phrases in the same sentence. I do agree with the Megapixel count be right for the M9. 16-20megs is prefect for this kind of camera. Low light usefullness is more of advantage.Look at the Sony NEX 7, it is a just too much Pix and not enough PICture. Good luck Leica. Go autofocus and still be able to mount the old M lens. Then you can lower your prices and give Japan something to think about!

29. Steve, you are so funny, you always say you won’t buy the next M whatever because you love the one you have and it’s the best camera you ever owned it’s crazy good and man, just blows you away…then guess what? You buy one.

30. M5 X 2 = M10

    I think I will wait for the M9-2 (Digital M4-2). The problem is, there is no ELCAN to save them this time, they are pretty well consolidated.

    The biggest problem is not just the price, it’s technology vs. price. There are many much cheaper cameras who are using the state of the art LCD technologies. Even the iPhone retina display is not good enough for this high end price tag.

    Neither Canon or Nikon have EVF in their top end cameras. There is a reason for that. Optical is still superior.

31. Let’s see, M10 $10,000. M11, $20,000. M12 $30,000. Etc,,, This is really getting absurd for people who are real shooters and not collectors or members of the upper one percent club. Steve said it right that at these prices it may even scare him away from Leica. Really, look at what you get for 3k for a D800. I think Leica reached the limit of price with the M9 P. Anything more is just insane! Another point; Not all m mount lens users are swimming in torrents of endless cash. Heck, all of my Leica M lenses were bought used and if I buy new, I can only afford Ziess or Voigtlander. It seems unfair that if you have any rangefinder lenses from any manufacturer, you have to pay a heavy price to use them full frame. Come on Zeiss, Voigtlander, Fuji, Sony, we really need some sane alternatives to the Leica pricing madness! Leica has no competition and it is going to their heads! Now is the time for competition in the full frame mirrorless market and for Leica to start sweating and bring their priced down a bit. A healthy dose of competition and free market would benefit us all!

    • Remember, this price is just my guess!

32. I used the M9 for a few years and changed it for a M9 which i love.
    I am not sure if Steve’s crystal ball is accurate , speculations have a tendency of being wrong from time to time.
    But what if it is true?
    10 K is tooooo much
    I would’nt like my Leica 10 to have a video, makes it simple just like antother camera
    I voted NO

33. I voted “yes”… Sure it will be expensive! Just like M8 was when introduced, and lot of M fans cried about it… I got M8. Than I got second M8… Than I sold one M8 and got M9… But, you know what? I still make $ shooting with M8 on my travels… Stock images from that 10mp sensor area still gold! I don’t think I will ever sell it… My first digital M.
    Now, if M10 is better than M9 just like M9 was few steps forward from M8, I would want it and I will get it… Both M cameras I use practically pay for them selfs with every click. They are that good. I am sure Leica will not disappoint this time. They are too smart. As for video feature, I understand why. It is the trend and necessity of today. I will gladly use it just as I use on my 5D MKII. Being full frame, it will be agreat performer in digital video field (with all that great glass)…
    Just like few of you mentioned, I just wish for M10 to be size and design of all other Ms… No funny business being bigger (a bit heavier, no problem….). Next spring my M9 will be officially “paid off” so I will be ready for anew purchase… Looking forward…

34. No go for me. I owned M8, and film Leicas. No rangefinder not a Leica :/ don’t care what anybody says. My SLR Nikons would be the cameras that will be faster focusing, more megapixels, more ISO always for snap-snap-snap gun them down/safari/studio photography.

    My RF Leica’s were for the soul… The rangefinder focusing, manual focus, working around the frame lines and limited ISO range (M8) made the experience special, unforgiving, loving, expensive, and frustrating but it was an EXPERIENCE.

    10k for a live view EVF Leica…No thanks. Give me a M9-P with a 35mm Cron or Lux.

    I had to sell them as I had a little guy on the way and it was between keeping Leica or Nikon. I chose Nikon.

35. “[More megapixels] unnecessary to photographers and only important to pixel peepers.”

    Not at all. I’d say most “real” photographers print, and, these days, it’s not uncommon to print very large, which is the point of more megapixels. If you’re not printing, you really haven’t needed a better sensor for several years.

36. I’d actually be pretty keen for live view and video on a Leica M if they didn’t mess with the rangefinder system, mount or the overall form factor. If it performed will enough I’d probably toss my Canon gear

37. Most M9 users don’t need an M10, most M9 users would like :

    -1- beter high iso = sensor upgrade,
    -2- better LCD screen (not sure for me) = upgrade
    -3- longer exposure time = firmware update (free, no money !)

    Would not cost 5K$.

    The bad thing for us, who use the M9 to photograph, is the slip of LEICA toward luxury.
    For us, here at this site, the M series is what it was at the very begining : a tool, not a symbol or an emblem to mention our wealth !
    DS

38. M5 X 2 = M10

    With no disrespect to the M5 intended, it’s a fine camera, just not what the market wanted. Same with the M10, this market is already over crowded with much cheaper cameras.

    Maybe the M9-2 like the M4-2 before it, will save Leica.

    I guess Leica has not learned from history, so here we go again folks.

39. no more fun if it is going to be EVF.

40. pixels are very important for some of us, i sell corporate art as big as my printer will produce them (44×120 inches), and am getting tired of stitching images, (on banner material even bigger).

    live view would be nice, as then i would no longer have to cary a off brand camera, to attach my long R lenses to.

    higher iso would be really nice when i am working events, but usually i use my m9 at 160 on a tripod

    maybe two versions (one chip at 24 and another at 36+)

41. I don’t quite understand cramming those features into a rangefinder, manual focus body design? I’m sure the specs are designed to appeal to the Canon/Nikon DSLR user, but HD video on a rangefinder?
    Does that mean autofocus and image stabilizers on the M10? Does that mean a whole new family of $7k+ M-Autofocus lenses as well?

    I’m not sure pro DPs and cinematographers who are shooting with Canon DSLRs are going to pay 3x more for a new Leica suite, that in all odds won’t measure up to the performance of say a Canon 5D or Nikon D800.

    Improved ISO performance would be much appreciated. I would take in-body image stabilization like the OMD over an EVF any day. For me in-body IS was a boone when shooting with 75mm+ M lenses on M4/3 cameras. With the inclusion of the proper viewfinder diopter on M-rangefinders focusing at longer lengths is way better than the grainy EVF enlargements.

    • I don’t get the feeling the needs of pros come up much in Leica product-planning sessions for the M cameras or have for some years, except those working in a few specialties where speed and versatility are unimportant. That exclusive bunch is far outnumbered by the rich and status conscious. For them, higher prices suggest greater exclusivity. Leica would not be the first company to find it profitable to raise their prices to increase their luxury credentials. I will find it very sad if the prices squeeze out enthusiasts who respect the Leica tradition and can possibly scrape up enough for an occasional expensive treat. Enthusiasts even enjoy the idiosyncracies (‘character’) and slow working style (‘makes me look harder’). I’m not part of that camp, but can see some of the appeal. The lenses have a stronger pull on me, but are also well beyond my means.

42. Why pay $10k for a Leica when I can get the Fuji X-Pro1 for $1.6k!

    • And that is exactly what my Leica dealer is saying too, yes *Leica Dealer*. Even their S/H gear that used to fly off the shelves is still there week after week, sales have slowed to a crawl due to the ever increasing prices and in an almost worldwide depression people are saying no and looking elsewhere at items by Fuji, Ricoh, Sony etc instead is what they’re saying.

      Manager said obviously they don’t know the UK pricing of the M10 as of yet but expecting it to be £6995.00. Leica are shooting themselves in the foot if it does launch at that sort of pricing, but hey it’s their choice. lol

    • Exactly so. The X-Trans sensor is well & truly spectacular. If Fuji were to engineer a full-frame version of that technology it would blow away every other FF sensor on the planet. As it stands, it’s already as good as any other equivalent 16 megapixel FF sensor out there right now.

      And Fuji’s lenses are about as good as it gets. The 35mm f/1.4 is comparable to any of Leica’s 50mm lenses.

      On Tuesday, Fuji will release the biggest firmware update yet for the X-Pro1. By all accounts the autofocus speed will be increased to near OM-D levels, and greatly improved in low light, which is to say very good indeed. Manual focusing will also be significantly improved.

      Now if they just add the ability to set minimum shutter speeds when using Auto-ISO, the X-Pro1 will be damn near perfect!

43. I say : the “M spirit” is dead with the M10.
    How can the Average Joe afford a M10 ?

    I won’t buy one, even if I can afford it.

    Leica is now a company that sells products to Saudis and Qataris, not to amateurs or pros.

    After all, this is not a bad thing. People will FINALLY realize that the digital Ms are overated.

    I’m sure many of the readers will sell their car to feel part of “The Club”.
    How many here think that with a MM or a M10 they’ll be “real” photographers…

    I quit Leica when I sold my M9P to François (the guy who sent the info to Steve) two dans ago.
    I still got a M6 Titanium and its Summilux 35/1.4 silver…

    • I make my living as stock photographer and DP. I buy gear that helps me make $. Also, I sell the gear that I don’t use any more (like ALL film stuff, for me film is dead…). I sold one M8 to buy M9… I am keeping both my M8 and M9 and I will buy M10 next summer. How? I wiil lease it just as I lease all my professional gear and write off 100% over 3 years. why? Because I am sure M10 will be better than M9, just like M9 was better than M8… I am not Qatar sheik or Russian oligarch but a professional who chooses the proper tool for work. The fact that my work was and still is my hobbie, is another thing…

      • Steven, I’m sure your M10 photos won’t be better than the ones you take with your current gear.
        You made a living of them, that’s the proof that the M10 is a waste of money…

        My 2 cents…

44. I can already see a “M10-P” or “M11” with integrated hybrid OVF/EVF on the horizont. An external EVF on a 10.000$ camera would just be ridiculous (as it already is, frankly, on the X2). I think this would further strengthen Fuji’s X-Pro series: They’ll just have to add focus peaking and maybe bundle it with a Leica-M adapter, done is the modern Leica body for everyone who doesn’t sleep on piles of cash. Sure it’s a crop camera, but so is the M8.

45. I think it’s a bit of a shame the see Leica pushing beyond the budgets of the pro photographers who have long used their cameras. Seems to me a camera like this needs highly skilled people who simply by shooting with it promote it. And I just don’t see the average hobbyist (or me if I could afford it) doing that. Maybe I’m underestimating how much some photographers can muster up, but I seem to recall a number of reviews from pros stating that purchasing an m9, especially as a camera for personal use, was a big stretch financially. I guess they’re going after a different client base now though. Ah well.

    • I have Lumix for “personal use”… But my M9 and M8 make my living every time I use them. The fact that I spend far less time post processing files from Leica than when I do my Canon 5DMKII files, makes all the difference. Time is precious. Time is money. If I can spend less time in front of the computer screen by buying tool that will give me that, why not paying extra? I rather spend that time shooting than editing files… But thats me…

46. I wonder whether it will be as good as say an OMD… whether autofocus will be lightning fast (unlikely), weathersealed but then the lens aint so kinda pointless, LCD will be as good as OMD (nothing happened w/ M9 from M8) what about built-in IS… and it costs $10k… I guess I’ll have to sell my car or mortgage my apartment if I was to get one…. all because of a red dot?!

47. Wow, this will be around the 63rd comment on a post mostly on M10 speculation….

    The least believable moment in the post… When Steve says he thinks his speculated cost of $10K prices it out of his range. And then follows it up with having the MM on pre-order. Dude, based on your past spending habits we all know you’ll get an M10 if it floats your boat. I get you ain’t rich, but owning an M9 and soon an MM along with all your other gear doesn’t place you in “guys like me” territory.

    • My past spending habits? Are you aware that I have always only had one Leica M at one given time? Having to sell one to fund the other? Of the fact that I have ONE M lens? If I buy the mono, my M9-P has to be sold but I will most likely do it just so I can have an ongoing review. Leica may send me one but I would only get it for a week or two. For the Mono I would like to have one for a while so I can report on it. An M10 would take selling my M9-P or Mono and coming up with an extra $4-$5k. Not an easy task for me. The other cameras I own are small, not so pricey. They come and go, again, so I can write reports and follow ups on them. I’d guess you have more spendable cash than I do 🙂

      • Sorry if that sounded overly negative. Despite the cost, if the M10 is a winner, I can see it in your camera bag sooner than it would be in mine. And yes, if I sold a few things I could justify the expense. I’ve been waiting for the M10 because the alternatives aren’t full frame and don’t have the ease of RF focusing. Maybe I’ll buy the M9P or MM that you will be selling instead. 🙂

        • Oh not at all and yes, I usually give great deals 🙂

48. Leica is just a company like any other…they have to make a decent profit in order to fund the R&D necessary to compete the next 5-10 years…

    Therefore putting the M10 higher in the market, they create space between the X2 and M10 for
    a successor of the M with FF for a lower price, probably the MX-1 named.
    Living from a M10 only is not the way..

    This will result in X2-MX1-M10-S3 range…
    It is something all the CAR manufacturers are doing a long time…the marketing-wheel

    Last but not least… it is in MHO 100% clear that there will be a Leica ‘R’ Sucessor…. which will
    revitalize the R community and more space to sell new R lenses !!

49. Bodies are repliacable glass is an investment you sell to replace your body my m6 is still the same price I paid for it 12 years ago I’ll wait too see newer is not always better I like my Nikon D700 and glad I hung onto it the D800 is glitchy with technology there now is no camera forever it is just a back for your glass

50. Have an M6. Love it. Film and Rangefinder…. and also have a big honking Nikon. Love that too. The selling point for Leica is the glass and rangefinder.

    I’d rather buy some fast primes for both. And Tri-X.

51. Currently over 176 users voted “yes”…so if the camera is $10k a piece Leica has already potential sales of $1.76MM (hope my math makes sense as I do not have my calculator around)…not bad for the fact that this is just on forum

52. Like you, Steve, I have been very happy with my M9….still maintain it is the best camera I have ever owned…I did buy the Nikon D800 (for my underwater work), but my M9 remains my “go-to” camera. Once you start adding all the bells and whistles, it ends the appeal for me….I bought the M9 for the simplicity (and other reasons).

    Is it the CMOS sensor that will improve ISO performance? If so, why not offer an M9 with a CMOS sensor, and call it the M9.5 or something….this assuming (as Ashwin stated) it comes without the AA filter. That would be something I would consider for an upgrade.

53. The Leica prices are getting even more out of reach for the average person to afford so if the M10 is even more than the Mono few will ever get to hold and use one.

    If i had the money to spend i would buy the Mono straight away- it is all the camera i would ever need.

    Can’t wait to see how things ‘develop’ (pun intended) with the Leica up and coming releases but somehow i think i will still be gripping my X100 with a little part of my brain PRETENDING it’s a Leica.

    Keep us all informed Steve.

54. i think the FF Fuji XPro2 will suffice when it is released 🙂

    • Fantasyland – the xf lenses do not have a large enough image circle for that.

55. Until they make the digital M feel like the body of an M3 I would never buy one.. Even the M9 is a deal breaker for me because of the fatter body. OVF + EVF sure but never EVF only. Who cares about live view or filming when buying a leica? Any P&S can be used for that nowadays. It’s the Leica feeling of shooting using OVF and Leica glass that is the Leica experience. Without it there are many other options and at a lot better price.
    My 2c…

56. Uh oh I just bought an M8 for $2200. Time to stop reading new articles from your site Steve 🙂 I’ll just pretend I still live in 2008.

57. As long as they keep the ovf and the evf will only be a add on (which I might not need) I would be fine.
    However from using the x-pro 1 that sometimes an evf helps for certain subjects. So having the option is a good solution IMO. I also wouldnt mind live view.

58. Very good summarizing article, Steve.

    Looks like Leica found out it makes much more sense, economically, to produce ever more expensive stuff at the same production rate than trying to offer more a.k.a. “cheaper” stuff from a fired up assembly line.

    The final word lies with Leica users. We can all rest assured that market will buy whatever Leica offers at whatever price.

59. No, no, no, no, no… just like I wouldn’t buy a Maserati or a Lotus, even if I would surely enjoy it A LOT. But I will definitely buy a Volkswagen or Alfa one day… value for money and still LOT OF FUN…

    Well, sounds like a troll anyway…

    Cheers,
    Ben

60. The ultimate M = Mechanical RF with electronic automatic calibration using the EVF.

61. When you stop and think how the majority of people actually view and share their images now – on a sub 2 mp monitor or their smartphones for a duration that will never exceed 1 minute maximum, you gotta ask yourselves, what’s the point of it all. Unless you print your images on quality paper 8 x 11 inches or up, 90+% of the population would best be served with a point and shoot. In fact, the new Sony RX100 is all that most anybody will ever need. I have a Leica M5 and it made sense when I used to hold a print in my hand and admire the “Leica look”. With the advent of digital and PS, most files shot in RAW by newer, under $1K cameras can be tweaked to give it that look provided you know what you’re doing. I’m afraid Leica has become just overpriced jewelry. I’m sure the new M10 will be close to $10K. I will definitely pass.

    • So you rather spend time in front your computer “tweaking files” to be just like Leica’s out of camera????.. I rather shoot with Leica at the first place, come back download and convert from RAW, minor adjust and be done with it… And go back to shooting…

62. I hope the M10 body isn’t any bigger than the M9 – it’s already big enough!

63. I’m totally in the “sign me up” category. I’ve been building an arsenal of M lenses specifically for a camera like this one. A higher resolution sensor sans optical low pass filter combined with Live View and Leica’s legendary lenses will make this system the ultimate landscape shooters kit.

    I don’t want Leica changing up the viewfinder to the extend of doing something like the X100 but adding the ability to have Live View takes absolutely nothing away from the M heritage and adds an immensely useful tool to those with the creativity to use it.

64. Leica has set up a complex marketing situation for themselves if this M10 “rumor” plays out. The monochrom is supposed to ship at the end of August (according to the B&H web site). That’s just 2-3 weeks ahead of Photokina. So, how do you sell a niche version of a product you’ve now announced a replacement for?

    Of course not my problem; Leica’s problem. However, assuming they are an astute company then maybe this M10 scenario will not play out too closely to what’s covered in this “rumor”.

65. A musician told me once that very few professional musicians buy Steinways, because they can’t afford them. He said that most of them are bought by very well off people who don’t play the piano, but just want one to decorate their living room. It would be a shame if this is the path that Leica feels it needs to take.

    • I think if you’re selling ‘special editions’, which are white, or have Hermes leather, or whatever, for $20,000+, it’s pretty safe to say that they started down that path a long time ago……
      Funny thing, though. I live in France, and am seeing a lot of ads for the Hermes edition. I don’t think they’re selling any too well.

      • Harry, they did. Probably starting with the original Lexus. And ever since there have been limited editions of various models, eg. Safari R3, gold R’s, many varieties of M6, a replica 0, to name a few. But, if truth be told, these were/are aimed at collectors, not users.

        There is one I’d like to get, were I wealthy enough, and that is what looks like, for all intents and purposes, like a normal M3, but has the innards and metering of an M6.

66. I would have guessed 6999 were it not for the existence and pricing of the m9p and m9m and apo 50. Video is not a feature that costs anything to add. The evf will be a separate accessory (necessary for video). The sensor part should cost the same as the m9 did originally.

    It will be a pure m with a video button and a evf port. Only concern I have is the price. I bought an Ex+ full box m8 for $2500 three or four years ago. That almost seems quaint.

    Enough people must be buying this stuff.

67. You can only charge so much for a camera. On the plus side, my countrymen in Greece are doing a great job of devaluing the Euro. The Italians, Spaniards et al aren’t far behind on that good work. With a devaluing Euro, the USD (or in my case, the AUD) price should be more realistic than the $10K suggested. Message to Leica importers, pass on the foreign exchange saving.

    Doesn’t anyone in the industry have any sympathy for the depreciation of the camera. It wasn’t long ago Leica were asking $8K for an M8. How much is one now?

    Can Leica produce a full frame digital back for the R System?

    • Noel,

      They once did for the R8 and R9. But didn’t sell too well, I gather, and then Leica gave up on R models completely in 2009, much to the chagrin of their devoted R fans. One mustn’t forget that despite their fame, who hasn’t heard of Leica, they are a tiny, tiny company in the global world of cameras. Their production costs must be horrendous compared to the big players, hence high prices and slow gestation periods for each new model.

      I used to think that their products were evolutionary, not revolutionary, but when I look at the latest digital cameras from all other manufacturers, it does seem as though the “latest” model is never that far removed from its predecessor, and to what real advantage.

      But for many, I suspect that today’s real value in Leica is in their lenses, not so much in camera bodies. The M really is unique, but comes at a price.

      • The digital back for the R system wasn’t full frame, it was 1.3x crop sensor.

        • dezzmo, I didn’t know that, but it does make sense as I assume the engineering at the time would have been based around the M8 sensor.

68. Say the M10 arrives next year basically as described. Predictions for the value of an M9 at that point?

    • $4000

      • Wishful thinking 🙂

        • Wtach Dezmo…when that M10 gets announced people will be dumping their M9’s like hot potatoes. Look at what happened to the $7000 M8 after the M9 came out….I bought my mint M8 for $2200.

          No doubt there will be a line-up of people waiting to buy used M9’s (myself included), but the price is going to drop significantly. The lenses on the other hand…not so much.

        • Since I know you I’ll give you $4500 for yours….besides you’re getting married and won’t have time to shoot anyway:)

    • <$5000

69. I answered “no” as well. If truth be told, I don’t believe they will be able to keep the M9’s character without a CCD sensor, which for me, is the whole reason I deal with the M9’s shortcomings. You may not get medium format resolution with an M9, but you get that medium format look which I adore.
    Like RexGig, I’d sooner buy a M9 Mono.

    • Agreed…it’s the CCD sensor that makes the difference. Anyone who has put a Leica lens on a Sony/Fuji/etc already knows this. Yes, the lenses are awesome but the CCD sensor adds that extra magic.

70. The M10 sounds intriguing, particularly if the high ISO performance has been significantly improved over the M9. Having an EVF wouldn’t bother me one bit, especially if it has focus peaking, like my NEX-7. I don’t see any problem at all with having more resolution either. IMO, more resolution gives me more options for cropping or for larger print sizes. I already own a screaming fast workstation, so I’m not worried about the larger raw files slowing me down.

    As for the Monochrom, for me it’s a total non-starter. It’s an interesting concept, but not having the ability to adjust the color channels in post in order to get the best B&W balance for each shot is far too limiting.

71. I’m wondering what will be the difference between the CMOS(probably by sony) and the current kodak CCD, especially in the mood of color. Have seen other FF sensor image like canon, nikon, or sony but kodak CCD was just a little bit different(or I’ve been hypnotised that way). Will there be any change of color tone if M10 takes CMOS?

72. I answered ” No” in the poll. The Monochrom does have my attention, if it stays in production long enough to be reasonably available in the 2014-2016 time period, when I could first reasonably hope to afford something in that price range.

73. As a current M9 owner, Two things would completely stop me from buying this rumored M10:

    1) the price and
    2) the non-integrated hybrid viewfinder.

    Honestly, if fuji ever gets manual focus right, they have the winning combination of price and technology.

    • Dave,

      And you can use Leica lenses on it! The best of both worlds, perhaps?

74. The 7000$ summicron was screaming something like “the next M10 will have a crazy pixel count”. If they use a 24 or 36 mp cmos sensor that sounds like a sony sensor, i don’t know how they’ll justify the 10000$ price tag… Just hope that price tag wasn’t whispered by your talkative fly.

    If you’re right, i’ll have to pray for cosina/epson to release a cheaper full frame RD-something …

    • The X2 is built on a Sony sensor as well, still it costs twice what a NEX-5N (with good lens) costs.

      • Willi,

        Branding is the issue, and it is not limited to Leica with their pricing of TP products e.g. the Olympus EVF. Many years ago I was the proud owner of a Jaguar Mk II 3.8. Now the sealed beam light unit in a Jaguar box cost around £15 each. The identical unit which was also used for the Austin Mini cost less than £5. Not Leica prices, but the same principle. Guess which I bought?

75. The M9 + glass was already too expensive for my pocket book; this becomes crazy expensive. Think I’ll buy a yacht and save some money.

76. None of the changes appeal to me – even the high ISO. The M9 and f2.0 do all I need.

77. Hi Steve, what does your crystal ball tell as regards a full frame Ricoh GXR-M with integrated EVF for around USD 2000? USD 10000 for an M10 would be the equivalent of USD 11500 in 2009 money, since the Euro depreciated against the USD. So there might be some room for a positive surprise on the US pricing front. An M10 for USD 8000, how does this sound?

    • I would love to see that too, but knowing Ricoh it would be chaulk full of Caveats like everything else they make. Their biggest problem seems that they are only willing to try something if someone else is doing it better cheaper. Such as $400 GXR+$650 A12 versus $650 Nex5N+$30 adapter, way cheaper and with better focus and better microlenses that don’t need moronic profiling.

      • Good points Danaceb and exactly why I traded my M8 in today for an NEX-7 as opposed to the Ricoh GXR & M Mount module.

        I love Ricoh stuff, but like you say so much of it comes with caveats.

        • uh oh, I hope you didn’t read about the NEX-6 🙂

          • Yes, I know. hahaha. But there will always be a better camera tomorrow won’t there? That’s just life. I got a cracking trade in deal so pretty happy but yeah, would have gone for the 6 if it had been available and on the shelf I’m sure.

78. I voted no because frankly, I’m tired of Leica digital. I find the color files subpar to both Nikon and Canon and therefore difficult (impossible) to justify using my M9 when shooting on paying jobs, which is what I do almost daily. Except for converting the M9 files to black and white there’s just no reason for it. I’m sure that might ruffle some fan feathers, but facts are facts.

    1. The M9 has horrible moiré issues. No way can you Photoshop them enough or talk your way out of trouble with an art director when you turn in files with wavy lines across the CEO’s suit. If the pictures don’t play the clients don’t pay!

    2. Splotchy magenta in faces, especially ruddy complexions. Been there, had those and jumped thru a ton of hoops to tone them down enough to be usable. Never again!

    3. We all know the high ISO issues. Nuff said.

    4. Even with a 1.4 magnifier the usefulness of a 90mm lens is ify. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve gotten some amazing images when the focus is right on, but the percentage of in focus images, especially wide open, is abysmal. Again, try explaining to your client why the majority of your pictures are out of focus! And using a 135 is just out of the question unless you stop down to f/8 or f/11.

    5. Frame lines not accurate! Aaarrrgggg!!! As someone who is “old school” and trained to shoot full frame this is maddening. Sure, there’s enough real estate to crop, but why should you have to? Never did when using my M2, M3, M4-2, M-6 and now my MP. Yes, I’ve been shooting Leica professionally for a VERY long time!

    6. The constant plummet in value of the the digital camea. Sure, the M9 might get a bump on the secondary market when the M10 is announced. Maybe. Just as a bankrupt company’s stock gets a bump up when it files for Chapter 11. But hold it too long and you’ve got a real pretty paperweight. Anyone interested in an $8,000 Canon 1Ds? Didn’t think so. They’re coming in around $600 right now.
    If you’re lucky.

    7. And of course there’s that little consideration of cost… which will no doubt be pushing 10K. Ten thousand dollars! You’ve got to really love that red dot to drop that kind of coin. Or be living off a nice trust fund. As a working photographer I have neither that much love for red dots or the trust fund. But if anyone wants to adopt me, I’m available.

    • Whoa! “I find the color files subpar to both Nikon and Canon and therefore difficult (impossible) to justify using my M9 when shooting on paying jobs, which is what I do almost daily. Except for converting the M9 files to black and white there’s just no reason for it. I’m sure that might ruffle some fan feathers, but facts are facts.

      1. The M9 has horrible moiré issues. No way can you Photoshop them enough or talk your way out of trouble with an art director when you turn in files with wavy lines across the CEO’s suit. If the pictures don’t play the clients don’t pay!

      2. Splotchy magenta in faces, especially ruddy complexions. Been there, had those and jumped thru a ton of hoops to tone them down enough to be usable. Never again!”

      Dude, Terry. Thank you. lol. I’m reading this stuff and I don’t want to jump in here with all my Steve Huff idols and talk about the M9 like you just did. 😉 But wow, you nailed my feelings. I sold my M9, I came to react to the M9’s color in a way that I would describe as a cross between aversion and out and out queasiness. And that goes for everyone’s shots. A trip to LFI grosses me out. I’m sorry, that’s how I feel and obviously I’m not alone. I used to try to overcome the bad color in post processing and would end up with charcoal looking images… and a trip to LFI to the M9 master shots shows SCORES of photographer’s travel shots where they seem to have magically come to the same ghastly solution. I would should my D3 or D700 or look back and D2x images and DREAM of Leica dropping those sensors into a digital M. So… my vote is unsure. Have to wait and see.

      I would also hope for a camera that’s tough as a film M.

      Anyway.

      db

79. Hi Steve (great site) Sorry but my buddy in Germany and verified by UK ‘Tony’ the Hybrid is still years away the Prototype M10 is well still being fine tuned I agree M10 with Video is not a classic M but that might be in the cards not sure if a true Hybrid EVF etc…the model the ‘being tested’ has problems with high pxcell but Leica Might (this is still in Pre stages) want’s to stick it to Fuji X Pro with a company beyond Panasonic you didn’t here this from me but I’m not Yoda If I say more my two friends will be in a serious breach of Industrial esponage…from the drop frames samples I saw on my UK secured site A converted cine lens Arriflex as a Tester lens to highlight improved resolution…I was Very Impressed but what really got my motor turning was Real Time Broadcast with a Cloudtype memory from anywhere in the world. Not sure if this will be on M10 but my friend said as of now not for consumer usage.
    Remember these are paid R&D Areospace Technicians. Fun for a fan like me as for the price tag Not for Me but dreaming free.
    Happy shooting folks.
    Paul
    Circle

    • Thats what I am saying..the M10 will NOT be a hybrid but rather an RF VF and EVF option. The cloud memory will NOT be on an M10. I can guarantee you that one. 🙂 Also, I think Leica will release a couple more things at Photokina. The D-Lux 6 which is expected as well as something else that may be a surprise. We shall see.

80. Leica M3 body great condition = about $800. Upgrade on the “sensor” = about $5, with processing and hi-res scan (about 12-25MP depending on what you read) add about $15. Use a ton of black and white film and develop your own can be cheaper. At first, I lusted after an M9 as I had all the glass I wanted, but after getting those scans back, be it Velvia or Portra, I’m sticking to my M3 and M7. (Although I did rent the M9 and it was fun and convenient). I can process and scan a ton of film for $7000, let a lone dropping $10K on the M10. As an aside, with film I always have a “hard copy,” which I’m glad I did because I had a computer problem and my backup drive was even corrupted. In the end, get what you like and just have fun shooting!

    • ….and every other month a different line of film gets dropped from production….

      • …….and a new one comes out to replace it. From what I’ve read lately, film sales, (especially B&W), are slowly increasing. A lot of used film cameras, both 35mm and MF are going up in price, which means demand.

        • True, the new Portra 400 is flying off shelf’s. Out of stock at my usual dealer.

          And I just visited my local lab’s new premises today in the centre of the city and on 3 floors. Why? Mainly due to soaring film usage locally. I’m not saying it is the same world wide but in the UK things are ticking along quite nicely it seems for film use. 🙂

          • I agree, I had to wait a couple of weeks for some Tri-X recently. The dealer told me that it was sold out in Europe and that Kodak hadn’t made enough for the increased demand. Shame they are in such trouble and have stopped making their slide films now, though.

          • Will,

            Sold out in Europe? This is news to me. The UK is in Europe and my local supplier has tons of the stuff. 🙂 You name it, 35mm, 120, 5×4, and he has it.

    • I can’t agree more.
      Some days I am fed up with my M9, and fed up with digital. The sensor is outdated, I had to send it back 3 times to solms for various reasons, it is noisy in the dark, bufffer is slow when you need it the most.

      So, I am clearly not ready to spend more £€$$ on an M10 which
      1) will probably not technologically be on par with the high end Nikon and Canon bodies
      2) will clearly bring me less pleasure and satisfaction than the old M6/7- 50 lux – Tri X combo.

      Some people would by Leica washing machines if they made some. Not my case.
      And digital is a great way to “corrupt” my photography. Why would I pay for this?

81. I bought M8 and M9 because they are true rangefinders… If the M10 will have an electronic viewfinder I will not buy it. I will leave the M6 and a 35 summicron for my BW film setup and move back to an SLR with on optical viewfinder.

    • Kris. The price is crazy, especially when thinking of bleeding heart reporters picturing starving people with $17K camera obscura. As to EVF, there`s one advantage to it for B/W photographers. You see the motive in B/W something no OVF can do. I love EVF on my Ricoh GXR m-unit. There`s another thing. No more RF calibration worries for Noctilux and you can use with a proper adapter just any lens. Live view and EVF practically turns Leica in Visoflex set-up.

82. Not for me, if someone insisted I spend $10k on camera gear, then there are just so many other attractive options. Alpa 12TC, maybe a Walker 4×5, maybe a Leica M4, get all that and spend the change travelling.

    Spending $10k on gear is one thing, but only getting one digital camera out of it would be disappointing considering the possibilities.

83. OK. So I have $10K to spend on the camera and $7K for the lens. No problem. I just buy the new Fuji X200 for about $1499. For zoom I buy the Sony RX100 for $649. And the rest of the $$$ I use to travel around the world with my family taking wonderful pictures and enjoying life 🙂

    • Sounds like a good plan

      • Thanks

    • How far can you get for the remaining approx. 15.000 dollars with your family? After the trip, you still are dreaming of a Leica M10 however the Fuji X200 and the Sony RX100 are good enough for 98% of the mankind.

      • I would start in Paris. 🙂

        • …then to Prague, the Outer Hebrides, back to SW France, up to Glenlyon, and next to the Faroes.

          Over the next three weeks..

          For anyone on the move, how are you coping with storage from the 24 or 36 Mp files? SDHC cards are cheap, but still subject to loss, and transfer to an external HDD requires a computer sometime.

    • you can’t travel with style without Leica… LOL

      • Yes you are right. Style = Leica. But, No Leica = Family Trip + Kodak Moments. Or in my case Fuji and Sony moments. So, we all make choices in life. I choose family over Leica. But to each is own. 🙂

84. The Leica M10 with EVF, well this is what the R lens people have been waiting for, Leica R to M lens adapter, and focus with the EVF.

    • Ken, Just wondering. Why would I, or any R user, buy an M10 just to use R lenses with an EVF when I have an excellent and usable reflex finder in my R7, and which is far better than any EVF? 🙂

      • Better for what?
        Focus accuracy? Definitely no, with EVF you have magnification
        Exposure control? No, with EVF you see something that is very close to the final image.

        • Hi, Denis,

          I take your points. But as a long-time film user, may I say that I CAN focus my R7 accurately through the v/f which is far clearer than any EVF and has higher resolution to boot, including that of my Sony Nex, and it doesn’t shake all over the place as do EVF’s used in magnification mode and which become horrendously difficult to hand hold once you start using tele lenses.

          Exposure control? Well the R7 has 5 metering modes, and I know how to use them, so no problem here.

          Accuracy of the viewed image versus that taken? Well, I admit you’ve got me there 100%, 🙂 but then I do most of my shooting in good old B/W. But even so, just how accurate are the colours from any digital sensor? The same argument applies to colour film, of course.

          But my original point in addressing Ken’s post was the potential cost of the M10 body so he could use his R lenses. Ken has addressed this issue below, and we now know why.

      • I used to shoot with my Leicaflex, so I have a bunch of R glass. But film is no longer an option for me, so I have been waiting for the Leica R solution since 2009,

        • Hello, Ken.

          I’ve gone backwards in this theme. Having recently acquired a 24mm Elmarit-R, I didn’t want to replicate it with an M version for my M3/M6, so I bought an M to R adaptor. Obviously there is no r/f coupling but with such a wide DoF, focusing by scale will be a doddle. And I haven’t had to buy a specific 24mm optical viewfinder either – I simply use that which I use with my little Panasonic LX3.

          • Hi TerryB,

            My Leica Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm F/2.8 was fitted to my M9 via the Novoflex adapter, close up shots are trial and error, but once I got it, the pictures are so beautiful. That is why the EVF in the M10 is so enticing, since I already have the adapter.

          • Hello, Ken.

            With that Apo macro lens, I can see why the M10 could be an exciting and enticing option for you. Let’s hope Leica don’t skimp on the resolution of the EVF. I use the Sony EVF on my Nex 5N and find its resolution a boon for manually focusing my R/M lenses.

          • Hi TerryB,

            I was also checking out the Sony Nex 7, but it does not have a FF sensor for my R glass. The other option are the large and heavy Canon SLRs, not want I am looking for.

          • Hello, again.:-)

            There’s the rub. If another FF sensor camera, not dslr, hit the streets at a much more affordable price than a digital M, and then providing its IQ was up to scratch, just watch how many Leica glass owners would flock to it!

85. the problem with leica is not the specs … or the future specs …

    the problem is the price . it’s no longer a tool for photographers.
    it’s a fashion tool for Russian oligarchs or arab sheikh.

    And the Planned obsolescence of the electronics it contains make this price even more unbearable.

    • Amen, never a truer word was said. Unless Cosina finally gets their head out of their asses and release a proper digital Bessa, people like us are likely going to be stuck with the M8, M9(the few that afforded it) or have to give up rangefinders for good. $7,000 for what will be a midranged lens is just perverse and even hand made in germany, it is not remotely worth the trouble anymore.

    • I am forced to agree with this. Luxury brands can do very well. I question how well a camera brand will do when, essentially, not a single UN-sponsored working pro will use one based on the price.

      Foot, meet bullet.

    • Agreed.

      Thing is with Leica it has always been mainly about the quality of the glass. Now when Leica launched their first Digital M with the M8 that and the Epson RD1 were the only digital cameras you could use M glass on. That ain’t the case anymore in 2012 and another valid reason why Leica may be shooting themselves in the foot with their pricing structure.

      Still if that’s the way they want to go their choice. It works both ways, I just sold one single Leica lens I wasn’t using enough and bough a whole quality MF camera system for the same money. People will look elsewhere once pricing goes above their ceiling and that applies to the ever rising prices of S/H gear every bit as much as it does to new stuff.

      • Too bad, Epson didn’t keep on going with their R-D system. Otherwise, we can see much cheaper and more tech advance FF RF.

    • Agree too. It seems that they already gave up producing real tools (I mean with good value for money) when we saw what the X2 was like. Please cosinaaaaaaa…!

86. It used to be you could buy a Leica body and count on it for decades, unfortunately digital has changed that due to the technology curve. I think Leica getting to a point of a “serviceable” camera that can have the sensor upgraded would prove to be a better long term path for them. The prices are just too high to plan on a 2-4 year upgrade cycle with a sizable loss in previous generations value along with the image quality being surpassed by following generations.

    CCD vs Cmos – that debate was settled years ago – Neither one is better over the other in end-use image quality. The debate is more to do with design engineers on how to handle heat dispersion which among other things leads to noise.

    Noise has always been the elephant in the room for Leica. If you are selling “professional” equipment, it must out preform consumer class cameras on what you are marketing it for. Build quality doesn’t mean much when you can buy 6 “other” bodies that can take the same glass but out perform on a substantial area of shooting. It doesn’t have to be the best, but it needs to have almost equal IQ 100/200 to 2000, fully usable to 3200 and good 6400. Above that or anyone who need to shoot that high all the time, people will be shooting a D4 or Canon equiv. anyway.

    If that price guess is close, that will be a sad day and certainly end any desire to attain to a Leica. Prices before were unreasonable but one could justify it with the glass. $10K for a manual focus, high noise, limited use system that will need replaced in 4-5 years and will probably be outdated in 2 (by the time you can get one) is just too high for even more than before.

    • Tao…who says you need a ‘2-4 year upgrade cycle’??? It’s not like the M8/M9 just stop working when the M10 comes out. If you’re happy with the quality from an M9 now…it will be just as nice 5 years from now. Stop reading gear-head forums and you’ll save yourself a lot of money and you’ll be happier with your gear:)

      Now if I could just take my own advice……

      • That is kind of the “film days” thought – Leica bodies from the 50’s & 60s are still going but that has changed with digital. There is some truth to that you don’t need the newest gear, but image quality is subjective – to a clients eye, not our own. What is good enough for one, is not necessarily good enough for all. I have a Nikon D50 converted to IR and it does a great job but the sensor and the rendering of the photos has fallen so far behind that you can see the difference growing more every year. I’m happy with it, but no longer are galleries or customers. If you make money at photography, you have to keep up with the times (not necessarily the most current gear) but when the image quality looks dated, it is noticed. There is also a fact of service life of a camera. If you shoot 100k-200k photos a year, there is normal ware and tear on the system as well. My thoughts do not come from “gear-head” forums, they come from reality of the market as well as I’m not happy when my tools can are no longer sufficient or become a crutch.

87. Steve – you are going to buy one…remember you LOVE all Leica…..no doubt you will find a way to have one….and then we all will be very happy to know you are happy… ALL BEST. Elias

88. The add-on EVF makes a lot of sense for many reasons. But the M bodies are so esthetically beautiful, I can’t help but think that it is a kludgy thing to put on the Leica camera.

    Technically speaking, if they had omitted the rangefinder mechanism in the top part of the case, they could easily put an EVF inside the body. But if they did that, then it would cease to be the beloved rangefinder and would be a Mirrorless System Camera. I’m not sure if they could do some sort of hybrid like the Fuji X100 and furthermore there might be patent issues there?

    My guess is that the primary users of the M10 with deploy it as a rangefinder and will only occasionally use the EVF for things like non-coupled glass and for video.

    In any case, I praise Leica for possibly making what could technically be characterized as the first full-frame mirrorless camera.

    As for me, I want my next camera to be a full-frame mirrorless, but without the rangefinder mechanism. That said, I have already signed up to take Leica’s Monochrom Workshop next year, but that’s primarily because I want to learn about using achromatic sensors in general.

    • this is exactly what I want too – FF mirrorless under 4-5K. But it seems not happening in the nearest future…

89. Voted No. Simply because M is about

    Rangefinder and MF and not EVF!!!
    The Kodak CCD has just Color like no other at Base ISO

    Ok, live view might come in handy (only on the Display) and a better ISO performance would be welcome….

    Noon, I’ll stick with my brilliant M9P, the lovely OM-D and whenever I find one for fair Price a M7 for B&W Film.

    B

90. How about just a high res, antiglare LED back screen, for the times when one needs live view. I am sure that they will still provide an EVF option, but in my eyes, using one of these obviates the ergonomic feel of the digital M. Is the M10 the Next M5…let’s just call it an M5.2 lol…I hope not, as I love digital RF’s and love Leica, but the specs above will very much much depend on the output.

    To me the biggest sticking points will be:
    1. PRICE!
    2. How well do M lenses do on a full frame CMOS sensor? I have been one to feel that there’s something subtly different in how CMOS renders, but maybe it’s just placebo…
    3. High ISO performance. Surely, this will be better, as most modern CMOS sensors perform well upto ISO 3200 these days….
    4. AA filter or no AA filter? If this camera has an AA filter, I will most certainly NOT buy it, since one wouldn’t be able to get full resolution from their M lenses due to the slight blur imparted by AA filters
    5. Body dimensions and layout. Other than including a larger back screen, I am curious if dimensions will change? I have a host of accessories for the M, including thumbs up grips, half cases, and baseplates with SD and battery access, and the like, and don’t really want to re-invest…

    My gut tells me that I’ll be happy with the M9 and MM, but I guess we’ll see what the bird will chirp come Photokina….

91. Here we go, yo!

92. As a former Leica M owner (M4), I got a feeling listening to a Porsche Club member reading this article?
    All these Porsche purists talks the same ‘language’ as the Leica nerds.
    Firstly the pricing of products and the ‘dream’ of a pricey Porsche? That will never happen. If someone want a ‘cheap’ Porsche there is always a preowned for purchase. Same with Leica.
    Then we have all these additional features mentioned here by Steve? Same with Porsche and the ‘new’ 911 (generation 7), too ‘luxury’ according to the purists. It’s always a balance act for the manufacturer.
    I’m a member of the old generation and prefer simplicity. Remember my M4, a point & shoot camera.
    No display with a number of programs to select. I did my selection of film, that’s it.
    Greets a Porsche owner with a machine for driving and no unnecessary features/gadgets

93. Lets see, 24 MP, video, EVF and the ability to use Leica lens. So they are going to be making a $10,000 NEX-7?

    • Basically…..

      • The difference being the sensor on the M10 won’t smear all the detail in the corners with wide angle glass…unlike the Sony or the Fuji.

        • <..>
          ^-^

        • Try that E-mount Sigma 30mm!

          • BdV,

            Yes, agreed. It’s a corker of a lens for little money.

94. I hope the M10 brings in some new customers to leica, and will provide a good platform for “R” lenses.

    My money went for the M Monochrom.

    • Confusion spec so far.
      1. Unknow resolution: 24-36MP?
      2. EVF(optional?) OVF ? RF? If it has EVF/live view then why need the RF to focus. Very confusion.
      3. M or SLR lens via adapter. If it’s a M camera, it definitly has M mount. SLR lens via adapter and use EVF/live view to focus. bravo!!!
      4. If the RF is eliminated, will the camera still be an M? Maybe it’s an R10. You can use M lens via an adapter.

95. Voted no. Can’t afford 10k.
    So I’ll wait 4-5 years and maybe trade in the M9.

96. I seriously doubt the m9 prices will rise after this announcement. There will be a flood of used m9s on the market after it becomes official. I see it droping below $4000 on the used market and eventually stabilizing around the $4300 mark. If however, the prices do rise on used m9s it will b a true testiment to the legacy of the m9.

    • Only time will tell, but I seriously doubt M9 is going to drop below $4K especially if M10 is going to cost $9-10K… Less than half price of M10? I doubt it. My guess is that it will stabilize around $5K. Best thing to happen for M9 owner would be Leica stopping production of M9.

      • The M8 is around 1/3 of the intro price 5 years ago and in 5 years it will be 1/6 of the intro price is my guess. The same will happen to all digital cameras over time including the M9.

        • I think the M8 is a totally different beast than the M9 price wise. The M9 is pro FF camera that will have much more longevity than the M8. FF is a big deal for most digital photographers. When the M8 came out it was the only and biggest reason why I stuck with my M7 and Nikon SLR. The M9 was very easy to say yes too.

          • Is that why the Canon 1Ds mk. III held their value oh so well?

97. If this is true, it’s incredibly sad. Leica was the one company that “got” photography. By adding video and all these bells and whistles it becomes just like the micro 4/3rds crowd. I don’t want video – I’m a photographer, not a filmmaker.

    I’ll stick to the M9 and invest in glass, as you mentioned, Steve.

    • It’s a CMOS-chip, the capability is already there. I’m sure there are many people who’d like the option for “free” on such a monstrously expensive camera.

98. I can only think of one word…. Bland

99. Wanna bet it will be still vastly inferior to other cameras just like the stupid M9M ?

    • The Leica marketing guys used their last trick with the M9-M. Whow, what balls to try to sell a B&W camera, which is cheaper to make, and charge extra for it.

      • It probably is no cheaper to make. The sensor is the same size, which is the main thing that determines its price. They didn’t need a color filter, bit that saves little. Theoretically the processor could be lower powered, but engineering an entirely new set of electronics would have been needlessly expensive. In the end it costs just as much to make because it is almost the same camera as an M9. What did cost them money was developing firmware to make it into a monochrome camera and those costs plus marketing and distribution costs had to be covered by a much smaller number of sales. I think the price is justified (as much as Leica prices ever are.)

        • Well, if you follow the Leica marketing team’s approach for the M9:

          1. Sell the M9, first FF Leica camera, but don’t give the customer the sapphire screen, so the M9-P can be offered next year.

          2. Sell the M9-P a year later, with the sapphire screen, and call it a new model. No additional development cost, maybe save a little with paint.

          3. Leica M10 not ready, Leica marketing guys say, let sell a B&W camera, M9M to hold us over until the M10 is ready.

          I was fooled by step 1, and suckered into step 2, but I am not biting with step 3.

100. gonna wait til the m11 comes out then get an m10!

     • What if a full-frame NEX comes out before M11? I guess the price will be around 20% of M10.

       • Don’t think Sony will release a FF NEX as it would require an all new (and larger) lens mount. The current NEX lenses would not fit and they would have to call it something besides NEX.

         • Steve is right. no way FF NEX not possible, anyways Sony will show the A99 24MP FF SLT camera at photokina I suppose.

         • Steve,

           What’s in a name? A FF Sony would have to be bigger than the current Nex line-up, but couldn’t it use the existing line of Sony Alpha lenses? Nex, probably not, but how about Nextra?

         • If a FF NEX or X-PRO is out of the question, then I think Leica can take the market for quite a while because there is no competition in the Mirrorless FF field. No matter how crappy it is.

       • I guess a full frame K-01 is possible, maybe the only mirrorless outside of Leica with a FF mount.

         • Twitch,

           But it is such an ugly camera, and looks like it was built with lego. 🙂

           • Hey hey hey now…don;t be insulting. There’s no way lego looks as bad as the k01. LOL

           • Matt,

             Yes, perhaps I should re-phrase and say it would look better if it were built with lego. 🙂

         • I do not care hot it looks, but K-01 does not really count – it is basically a DSLR without a mirror (but with a mirror box) and without a viewfinder. You can not put your nice tiny M-mount lenses on it.

           • Well, in all fairness to Pentax…THEY ARE NOT HERE TO MAKE LEICA MONEY. That’s where a Leica body is for. I never heard of any business trying to make money for its competitors. Why do so many Leica users have such a hard time understanding this.And speaking of Leica users, how do so many of them afford to buy lenses and not the bodies? I guess Leica bodies aren’t any good considering Leica users DON’T even use them.

           • Gnome,

             I believe there are more Leica users out there than you may imagine, but we’re all using film cameras, whether it be an M or R model, and not expensive M9’s, or soon to be M10’s.

             And the beauty is, having already got a range of lenses, we can use them on digital bodies via adaptors. When out and about, I can pop my Nex 5N in the bag as well as it takes up so little room.

101. I know it sounds sacrilege, but why not leave off the range finder and its complicated engineering? If the M10 is to have an EVF why does it have to be an add on? Without the rangefinder, it would free up a lot of internal space for the sort of built in EVF a prestigious camera such as the M10 would deserve.

     I appreciate no EVF could equal the clarity of the direct optical viewfinder of an M, but then I understand to have live view and video it needs one, although this could equally be done via the rear screen, if only Leica updates that resolution. If it does have an add on EVF, surely this will have to be as good as that of the Sony Nex, especially at the price the M10 will command? The M10 will be around for a few years before the next upgrade to the M11, so Leica may as well be class equalling, if not class leading at this stage.

     • nothing is certain with Leica these days, they can do whatever they want… the red badge hides them.

       fufufu,,,

102. I rather spend 10 grand on a Fujifilm X-Pro 1 body and a bunch of Zeiss or Voigtlander lens.

     • Yeah Kris…except that Zeiss lenses like my 25mm Biogon look like crap on the XPro-1…..smeared corners. Major disappointment only overcome by how good the Fuji XF lenses are…

       • Clint – Could it be the adapter? I also use the Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 1:2,8 F=28mm but I don’t have the corner smeared problem. I use a cheap adapter from Fotodiox. You can see one of my shot with that lens here,

         http://bit.ly/MNFw5A

         • Hey Kris…I am using the genuine Fuji adapter, which works fine with my 50mm Summicron. I have spoken with others who used the Zeiss 28mm Biogon with the same adapter and get great results. It seems like 28mm is the cutoff but performance deteriorates with lenses wider than that. My 25mm Biogon on my Leica M8 was one of the sharpest lenses I’ve used…even wide open.

103. Well maybe you’re right. The might bulid up a new modern range possibly with Hybrid or completely EVF and keep the M9P or M Monochrom as the “classic” Leica. Remember: They are building a new factory. But I don’t see the price that high with only offering a simple EVF. That would miss all the RF experience for more money than the “better” M8/M9/M9-P and M Monochrom. I think that lineup will be set either at the same price level or a little bit lower, to support the M9P or M Monochrom. That might change if they are able to present it with a Hybrid viewfinder like the X-Pro1 together with the classic RF Mechanism maybe modified a bit to be a lot tougher. All speculations! I’ve got my bags packed for September at Cologne!
     Martin ( http://www.pholux.com/ )

104. Currently, I foresee me buying it. I would like to see it at or around 24 megapixels. I think the useable ISO around 3200-6400 would be enough of an upgrade to make most users consider. I would love being able to shoot in very low light with my summilux and noctilux (I do now but would prefer less noise).

105. I should probably go to photokina … may be the only chance to see the M10 live 🙂 I think that external EVF will look funny on the M10 (and will cost a LOT as it hopefully will not be the plastic one from Olympus, but who knows). Anyway the good ‘news’ (or lack of rumor) is that the M10 will still sport a classical rangefinder. Hopefully.

     Does anybody knows whether the gears will be made of steel or brass ? 😀

     • …of gold judging by price

     • It will be titanium lubricated with authentic German blood.

106. Leica understands their long and distinguished heritage. If they are moving to an EVF it will have to consider their manual focusing legacy. I just don’t see the point in video for an M10.

107. I voted yes because my eye are going and it is becoming harder and harder to focus my M9.

     If the price is correct I will have to sell my M7, M8, M9 and some glass to afford it but at least I will be able to get focus confirmation with the M10.

     • Hopefully the M10 will resolve focus issues with the slr magic hyperprime.

       • I have yet to encounter ANY focus issue with the Hyperprime. Ive encountered several with the Noctilux though as have many others. It’s the nature of ultra fast lenses no matter who makes them.

108. Why I vote no:

     1. MP as it is is good enough.
     2. Somehow I sense that CCD image is “crispier” then CMOS. I might be wrong.; please update me.
     3. It becomes more like the “others”
     4. $10,000!
     5. Hopefully M9/M9P will go down in price. I always want two bodies and they will be identical in this case. Why should I have a M9 + M10 combo? Which lens should go with which body? I need time to sort it out.

     Why I vote yes
     1. The latest always has its attractiveness.
     2. Tele and Macro lenses do not have to hide in the closet anymore.
     3. Higher ISO

     Therefore my vote is unsure at this point.

109. I’m still very happy with my M9 (and M6), but it’s going to be exciting to get the M10 specs out there.
     If the camera is going to be more expensive than M9, the used M9 prices is not going to be to small? I dont want too much loss in value for my M9 :p

110. You know, they might leave the rangefinder alone and functional. The add-on EVF would just be for those who want live view.

     • Oh I am sure that they will.

       • I think that’s the best of both world — you have traditional viewfinder for 28 – 50 (or up to 75), then use EVF for wider or longer shot. This will eliminate focusing problem and carrying a lot of viewfinder for wide angle shot.
         Let’s see what actually happen. 😉

         • I can see them pulling a Fuji and do what they did with the X100, a lever that lets you alternate between EVF and RF.

           • This *is* Leica we’re talking about – that’s a bit modern for them, I think 😉

           • M9 plus sony nex-7….thats the best of both worlds 🙂 ill stick with that i think

           • Isn’t that the X-Pro 1?

           • well, leica hated modern so much they got into digital.

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